HOW I GOT TO INTERVIEW ROYCE GRACIE FOR MY BOOK (AND WHAT THREE YEARS OF INTERVIEWING TAUGHT ME…)
it’s just gone past midnight as I write this.
I’m currently in a restaurant, in the valleys of the mountains, in Bangtao, in the final stretch of finishing off my first book. I’ve been at this place for the last twelve hours (seriously) and thought that it was about time to write a ‘behind the scenes’ post about one such encounter / interview / conversation that formulates a portion of a project I spent the last three years writing.
HERE’S HOW I GOT THE INTERVIEW…
We have to rewind back to July 2023 when I met Anwar Gilbert, the strength & mobility coach at Bangtao Muay Thai & MMA.
It’s 11:20am, thirty-degrees, and I’m on the way to his mobility class. From the moment I met him, I found him very interesting. He had this fiery intensity, this stillness, that drew me in. He would do his workouts in the corner without a care in the world of what was going on around him. Whenever he spoke about the breath, the spine or fascia, it was with the same conviction of an end of times prophetic preacher.
At that time, I knew I wanted to get his story. There was just something about him that piqued my interest. However, I also knew that being a world-class coach, in a transient ‘come and go’ environment - a ‘destination gym’ where people, from all over the world, come to train from a few weeks to a few months, also means that not everyone is going to get access to you.
“Phuket is like a beautiful prison.” a girl one said to me. “And the people that live here are on different sentences.” It was about how difficult it is to form friendships. I worked as a teacher for two years across China and Bali and, as rewarding as it was, it made be understand how my teachers, and my coaches, must have felt / feel.
Everyday you’re showing up, putting your own feelings aside, and trusted to deliver - all the whilst great expectations are put upon you.
I don’t wan’t to digress, but it’s important to know that those in leadership are not infallible. And I imagined for the seven coaches at the gym (all of whom world-class) who are constantly being stopped for photos and questions by their students, it can start to feel slightly parasocial.
Anyway, I was grateful. And so I thanked Anwar for all the new lessons, what he does, and we exchanged details.
From that day, in the summer of 2023, we kept in touch.
From the UK and China, I gave him updates about how I was getting on. Then, two years later, after the stint in China, I returned to the island, I returned to the gym, and returned to the one place I felt at home - Anwar’s classes.
At this point, through our messages, I had already told him I was writing a book - and that a significant portion in there was dedicated to Phuket and Bangtao. I told him that he is featured in there and that I would love a sit-down so I could really iron out the questions I had in my head ever since that first class two years prior.
And he agreed.
That night I spent hours in the eight-bed dormitory going through every post of his and jotting down questions in my Moleskine.
The following morning, I jumped on my bike, drove down to the neighbourhood of Choeng Thale, and the rest is history.
Me and Anwar during our 2hr interview at The Bluetree Phuket, August 2025
Around that same time, Michal Bisping, the first British UFC Champion, and a man widely known for wearing a prosthetic eye after a head kick blinded him in 2013, was arriving on August 9th for a seminar.
At this point, I had already interviewed a few people at the gym and was beginning to be recognised in its ecosystem.
Will Elliott, the easygoing managing director from Canada, who has continued to be a massive support, kindly offered me a free-ticket to Michael’s seminar.
Now, a bit of a confession: I have never had interest in watching sports. I am someone who would much rather play than to spectate - which meant that I had no clue who Michael was. This turned out to be a good thing. Going in with no context, or fanfare, meant that my questions I sought to ask were centred around understanding the man behind all the achievements. I am someone very fascinated about the human psychology rather than the achievements. As for Michael, for anyone to go against the grain and be the first in something, and achieve great feats (especially in the measures he had done), I knew that this was a man with a lot of stories.
The two questions I asked happened to elicit a good response from both Michael and the audience. And it was two questions that set the groundwork for what followed next.
“YOU’VE BEEN AN ACTOR IN A FEW MOVIES NOW… I’M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE ON SET, AND HOW BEING UNDER THE STUDIO LIGHTS COMPARED TO BEING IN THE RING?”
“WELL, FIRST THING… I DON’T CALL MYSELF ONE OF THOSE PRETENTIOUS ACTORS […] THERE WAS ONE MOVIE I DID, I CAN’T SAY WHICH, AND I’M IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA, GETTING READY FOR ACTION, AND THIS YOUNG GUY IS GETTING ALL HET UP, TELLING ME HOW TO PUNCH AND HOW TO DODGE THE PUNCH, AND HOW I HAVE TO FALL WHEN MY SCENE PARTNER ATTACKS ME, AND I LOOKED AT HIM LIKE, ‘DUDE SERIOUSLY?’
- Michael BISPING, AUGUST 9th 2026
After that, I then packed my bags and moved to Bali where I would be for just over half a year.
They say Bali is an island that ‘tests you’ - and they couldn’t be more right.
The school I ended up working at - a school which had been recommended to me by my mentor - ended up being a grand circus. From my first week there, the two founders got into an argument and over the following months, a Tom-and-Jerry legal battle between the two of them ensued. Passports withheld, wrong visas, the foreign teachers leaving, and bribes to get our own passports back, I decided to pack my bags and go (not without calling the co-founder ‘spineless, manipulative, and conniving’) and left the island, to another, with just $300 in my account.
I arrived back to Phuket on Good Friday and checked into the same hostel, with its eight-bed dormitory, that I had been in the previous two times in Thailand. I wasn’t sure what my next steps were. I had no job, was running low of money, and with being on a tourist visa, I had two months to figure it out.
The next day, I wake up to an anonymous email from a guy who had heard about the issues going on at the school and felt called to send me $1500. Things were, it seemed, starting to work out. That Monday, I shook off the stress, and headed back to the gym where I reunited with Anwar. He was using his mace - bringing it around his body - when he saw me. I told him the story about what happened, that I had no job. “Well don’t bum around!” he said. “I’m actually looking for a manager.”
And that’s how we got working together.
Room C, bed 1. The dormitory in which I slept for two months.
Over the next eleven days, I took over his Instagram, YouTube, and Skool account - driving each platform to the highest growht it had ever seen. We sat at the beach and in the small side restaurants, invisible to even Google Maps, and spoke about how we can make his brand grow so big.
There we brainstormed YouTube series ideas, content strategies and the likes. I’ve learnt that when we are close to our own product, we get to use to it (which is why it’s important to have a team).
The first reel I made for him went viral - amassing 20M views, two-thousand comments, and more than 15,000 shares - even drawing one such comment from Sean Strickland. It was the best-performing piece in the ten years of his own personal brand. And across the eleven days, each platform had the highest growth it had ever seen.
The phone would not stop pinging.
We were on to something.
In that same period, Royce Gracie was arriving on the island to teach a BJJ seminar. Anwar had asked me if I can help shoot some content during their private sessions and also prepare some questions to ask him - on brand for his own business.
“Yes” I said. “"Let’s do it.”
The questions I prepared for Royce Gracie the night before.
A FEW THINGS THAT INTERVIEWING TAUGHT ME…
Firstly, as an interviewer, you’re not doing it for yourself. That’s my first principle. Most people never get the space to sit with their own thoughts, to be heard out without someone waiting for their turn to speak. A good question isn’t always for you. Sometimes, contrary to what others might say, a good question is actually for the other person. We are constantly being bombarded with information and rarely have time to ‘just be’ with our thoughts. A good question should be like a spanner thrown in the clockworks. It forces the other person to stop and think and, hopefully, walk away feeling a little changed.
On that note… A good interview should feel like the end of a good therapy session.
Unless you’re working for The Daily Mail or The Sun, never pry, and never try to fish for anything salacious.
You don’t sit down with someone hoping they’ll hand over a secret.
The work runs on trust, and trust goes the moment someone senses you’re mining. Of course, when people feel comfortable around you, they’ll share - but it’s important to note that there’s a difference between a conversation and an interview. A conversation is between private parties and the latter is intended for a wider audience. If someone says something during an interview, that you think might be intended to be conversational, ask them if they want it cut - and always send the recording to them via email.Don’t take the piss. When I asked Will if I could interview him, I originally requested ten-minutes (I know I needed longer). However, during our conversation, he was really engaged and passionate (and it ended up being forty-minutes). When I had got the answers I needed, and I noticed that Will was starting to look towards the door, I wrapped it up with one final question. Don’t take the piss.
Interviewing is relationship building. Dick Cavvett was / is one of the best interviewers out there. He had / has a way about him that made everyone that came onto his show soften in his presence. Just because you have a mic doesn’t make you an interviewer. Sometimes it makes you a mosquito - buzzing around trying to get something. Be calm, be relaxed, be human.
You can pre-order ‘The Land of Smiles’ by clicking here.
